Liner Notes | Jay-Z’s “Blue Magic”
Artist: Jay-Z
Song: Blue Magic
Producers: The Neptunes
Album: American Gangster
Label: Roc-A-Fella, Def Jam
Release Date: September 20, 2007
What are Jay-Z’s best bars about business?
Kris: from "No Hook"
Hustle 'caine, hustle clothes, or hustle music,
But hustle hard in any hustle that you pick.
Devin: from "Lost One"
I heard motherfuckers sayin' they made Hov
Made Hov say, "Okay, so? Make another Hov!"
What are your favorite bars from “Blue Magic”?
Kris:
You already know what the bid-ness is.
Unnecessary commissary, boy, we live this shit.
Niggas wanna bring the '80s back,
That's okay with me, that's where they made me at.
Devin:
Blame Reagan for making me into a monster.
Blame Oliver North and Iran-Contra.
Links/Videos mentioned in this episode:
Watch Kris and Devin’s live recording of this episode on YouTube:
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Kris Hampton 00:00
Hey, what's up everybody? It's Kris. Just a quick heads up before we get started: we had a slight technical difficulty. You may not notice at all that the sound is different, but we noticed it. However, the conversation was so damn good that we had to just let it roll. Alright, let's get into it.
Devin Dabney 00:28
I'm Devin Dabney.
Kris Hampton 00:30
I'm Kris Hampton.
Devin Dabney 00:30
And this is how... Hip Hop Taught Me Everything.
Kris Hampton 00:40
Okay, first off, if you have not listened to this week's Lesson episode, "Jay-Z Taught Me Business", maaan, get on it! Full Lesson episodes are only available on Spotify. And with Spotify Premium, you're able to listen to the full song, in this case, "Blue Magic", immediately after the episode. I do realize that our first Jay-Z episode being "Blue Magic" might be a questionable decision because there are a whole lot of great J songs, but that's the one we went with. Before we get into these liner notes, Devin, in the entirety of Jay-Z's catalog, what are his best bars about business? And we have to exclude the obvious answer, which is going to be everybody's first answer, which comes from Kanye's "Diamonds from Sierra Leone - Remix". And can you do those bars in a Jay-Z voice?
Devin Dabney 01:41
Oh, man, you know, in my heart of hearts, I want to, but I haven't practiced those, those words specifically. So I don't want to do it because I don't want it to be like, total trash. Let me, let me practice it. And then next time we record a lot, I'll see if I can do it. Because I want to do it right. I don't want to...
Kris Hampton 02:02
I hear you. I hear you.
Devin Dabney 02:03
Oh, shoot.
Kris Hampton 02:04
Well, the obvious ones are, of course, "I'm not a businessman. I'm a business, man. And in my business, damn." but we can't use those. So in your opinion, what are Jay-Z's second best business bars?
Devin Dabney 02:19
Um, so this couplet is also probably my favorite Jay-Z line period. And I can't take credit for find, like, noticing it. One of my good friends pointed it out to me. It's from the song "Lost One". It's the first two lines, he says, he says, "I heard motherfuckers sayin' they made Hov. Made Hov say, 'Okay, so? Make another Hov!'" And I love that. That's probably like, that's like rapping 101. First of all, like, it has literally everything you need to know about rapping in it. And it's just the idea of like, I mean, I, when I think of it in terms of business, I think it's like, people, you know... to believe in what you make and believing that only you're the person that can make it. I mean, obviously, the idea of this line is like people are saying, like, you know, Jay-Z couldn't have done XYZ without me, Jay-Z needed me, blah, blah, blah. And he's saying, 'Okay, well, if that's true, why don't you make another Jay-Z?' And obviously, you can't make another Jay-Z. But yeah, I could go on and on about why that couplet is super, but I'll leave it there for now.
Kris Hampton 03:32
Well, I think, you know, that reminds me of this interview, I read with J years and years ago, when he put out "Death of Auto-Tune". It was, they were asking him about like, this is the trend, you know, why push back against it when it's popular? And he's like, that's, that's what I do - when I see, you know... I make shit popular. When I see that it catches on with everybody else, I switch it up, you know. And I love that. I love that about Jay. I love that he recognizes 'I built me, you know and and that's all there is to it. You make another me if you think you can.'
Devin Dabney 04:16
Yeah, yeah, it almost could be taken as like a... not, not like a challenge in a bad way, like it's like okay, well, if you think that this is so easy, I'd love to see you try. Like I would legitimately love to see you try it. Yeah, so that's my pick. With these questions more and more, I'm just picking like the first thing that I think of now and usually I'm not disappointed.
Kris Hampton 04:43
Yeah, great, great pick. Mine comes from the same album that we're talking about today, "American Gangster". It's on the song, "No Hook". And he says, "Hustle 'caine, hustle clothes, hustle music, but hustle hard in any hustle that you pick." And I, that, for me, that exemplifies how you need to treat your business all the time. It doesn't, it doesn't matter what it is. Doesn't matter if it's a lemonade stand, you have to be out on the street corner, trying to get people to stop at your lemonade stand, you know, you can't just sit back and wait for people to find it.
Devin Dabney 05:22
Yeah, yeah. And I the reason I like that line, too, is because I think when we listen to street rappers or people that have lived these like, extravagantly dangerous lives talk about hustle and hustle culture... I feel like, I don't know, I could be, like, projecting a little bit, but, I feel like we get too fixated on the thing that's being hustled. Like, it's like, he's not trying to just teach you how to sell crack. I mean, like, you can't all be crack dealers, you know, like, we have to... the hustle can mean a lot of different things. And I wish that was something that I understood early on. And, you know, it just... yeah. I guess I just wanted to point that out, that this could be translated to anything, you know?
Kris Hampton 06:17
Yeah. And you know, as, as coach, I'm gonna put on my coach hat here, he doesn't mention in here success in the hustle at all. He doesn't mention trying to reach some outcome. It's like, hustle hard in the hustle that you pick - that's it. Go hard at it. You can't be disappointed in yourself, if you give it everything you've got. No matter what the level of success is that you're hitting, you can't be disappointed if you went hard.
Devin Dabney 06:48
Yeah, absolutely. See, that's, and that's another thing, I think, like looking deeper into it and seeing that he's not telling you like, become a billionaire. Or like, I don't know, like, it's, I think this might just be an American culture thing, too, but we just get so fixated on these, like, arbitrary end goals of like... and you forget, like, what you're doing the thing for. I don't think that, yeah, I don't think that hustling is necessarily about hitting an end goal. I think it's more of a mindset or like more of a lifestyle in the sense of like, it's not something that you do until I hit a million dollars. I'm done. Yeah, can't get complacent.
Kris Hampton 07:35
Yeah, I think you know, that leads us right into these liner notes. Because this, this album in particular, the song is "Blue Magic", it comes from the album, "American Gangster", and, this in particular really speaks to Jay's belief in himself. Like I mentioned in the Lessons episode, Denzel, who starred in the film "American Gangster", was trying to talk the producer, Brian Grazer, into using Jay for the soundtrack, and having Jay be the artists that makes the whole soundtrack. And they just didn't believe Jay could do it. They didn't think he could get the right feel. So they didn't even approach him. Instead, Def Jam was doing the official soundtrack. So Jay, president of Def Jam at the time, got to watch the film. And he immediately was inspired by it. And was like, 'Well, if I'm not doing the soundtrack, I'm just gonna do my own album, inspired by the film.' And believed in himself so much in his ability to do this, that he did it anyway. So he's like 'I don't need your backing. I'm going to do it on my own. And I'm going to boost the level of your film because I'm putting an album out.'
Devin Dabney 08:49
I, I still just find it so incredulous that they didn't think that Jay-Z could make, I mean, he literally is the American Gangster like, the, like, you know what I mean? Like what else? He's the embodiment of that, like, that culture and that mythos and the like, larger than life businessman sort of image. Like, I can't even like come up with an analogy that that points out how silly this is.
Kris Hampton 09:20
Yeah, and you know, I don't know what Brian Grazer's hip hop chops are like, you know, he may be a hip hop historian for all I know, maybe, but my guess is that he probably knew "H to the Izzo" and "Hard Knock Life" and you know, these very pop records from Jay-Z...
Devin Dabney 09:39
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Kris Hampton 09:41
...and maybe that colored his like, 'Jay can't make this gritty, street, drug talk. He can't do it. He's a pop star.'
Devin Dabney 09:50
Oh, my God.
Kris Hampton 09:52
I'm guessing here. But...
Devin Dabney 09:54
I mean, I can't, I can't think of any other way that you could arrive to the conclusion that Jay-Z can't make a gangster album.
Kris Hampton 10:01
Well, one of the, one of the craziest things about this is when it came out, I was really confused. I know a lot of people were really confused. And actually, I have a clip from an interview to play you in a little while that this person was also confused, thinking that this was the official soundtrack because "Blue Magic" came out a month plus before the film did. So we hadn't seen it. We just knew Denzel is making this movie, we've been waiting on Denzel since "Training Day" like to make another thing like that, where he's this villain sort of character, and it seemed like the natural evolution from "Training Day". And then Jay's, putting out an album with the same title. And we're like, well, surely this is the soundtrack. You know, it's kind of what everybody thought. I don't have a clue what the actual official soundtrack from "American Gangster" is. This is what I think of when I think of that film because it's so... he does such a good job of embodying what this film depicts.
Devin Dabney 11:08
Yeah, you know, and I guess, I guess I thought that this song was on the soundtrack.
Kris Hampton 11:15
I think everybody did. And I love that he released this song first, and he released it pre-film. And I think this was a big boost for the film. The title "Blue Magic" is from, if you haven't seen the film, it's from Frank Lucas, who was a New York mobster gangster, from his particularly potent heroin, that was the name of it: Blue Magic. And for me, that name conjures up this idea of like, give them a little and get them hooked. And they're gonna keep coming back for more. And that's exactly what Jay did here. And he did it not only for his own album, but also for the film. I got more excited to see the film after the song came out.
Devin Dabney 12:00
100%. Yeah, I mean, and like, and since we're talking, you talked about what "Blue Magic" means to you when you hear it, I mean, obviously, there's literal meaning, but - I think when I hear that I just think of like, the purest of pure. Like, the raw, like, raw in the sense of not refined, but just like the most pure form of like, of excellence, or like the highest strain of something. Which is kind of just how I interpret it, like this, for Jay-Z anyway.
Kris Hampton 12:31
Yeah, for sure. And this was Jay kind of going back to his roots, you know, like he was, it was a, a move back into his gritty street corner hustling raps, which Jay is so good at but had moved away from a little bit. And had proven 'I can move away from that, I can do other things. I can make huge pop smash records. The hottest chick in the game wearing my chain.’ You know, he can do all of it. But he goes back to this street corner, hustle rhyme and... so good.
Devin Dabney 13:09
Yeah, yeah, the, the thing I wrote down about this was that it's like Dad rap if your dad was a crack dealer. It's like, it's still like street corner rap, but it comes from a perspective of like, 'Let me learn you something,' you know what I mean? It's different than like, how he was in the 90s. Like now he has something to teach you as opposed to you just watching. I mean, he had something to teach you before but - do you get what I'm saying? Like he's coming from a different perspective now, like you said, of like, 'Okay, I've done this, I've done that.' And now it's more like reflecting, as opposed to, you know, 'I'm like in it.' Am I making sense?
Kris Hampton 13:52
Yeah, it's like if Slug grew up in Reaganomics-era New York and was, was a crack dealer and then became dad rapper.
Devin Dabney 14:01
I love that he is like, the person you think of when you think of dad rap, too. And I hope that if he ever hears this, that when I say that, it's a compliment, you know? Like, it's just like, not everybody can do that. Not everybody can say something and make me believe that they're a mentor, you know? Like, I don't... that's a special kind of quality. So when I say that, I don't mean it in like a, like uncool dad way. I mean it in a way of like, 'Son, sit down at the kitchen table.' Like that's dad rap to me.
Kris Hampton 14:33
Well, I'm a, I am a father, grandfather and about to be a father again. And so I've been listening to this "Father Hoods" pod.
Devin Dabney 14:44
Really?
Kris Hampton 14:45
Yeah. Which is brilliant. And I listened to an episode with Slug the other day and he calls himself a dad rapper, so.
Devin Dabney 14:52
Okay, good. Yeah. So he seems to understand the sentiment behind it. But yeah, But yeah, like so, that's kind of how I think of this song. Like when I listen to it, it just makes me feel like, you know, like I'm being taught something, or I'm listening to Jay-Z reflect and simultaneously, like, live the life that he's telling you to live or like, do the thing that he's telling you to do. You know, it just, he's always kind of come off as this...well, let me take that back - he didn't always come off of as this larger-than-life, like, figure-on-the-mountain until about this era of Jay-Z. And I guess it's like post-retirement Jay-Z where he comes back as this, like, I don't know, like... it's like going from Gandalf the Grey to Gandalf the White or some shit.
Kris Hampton 15:44
Yeah. Jay-Z is the only person who can make another Jay-Z.
Devin Dabney 15:49
Yeah. You know, something funny? So you know how the chorus of the song samples En Vogue's "Hold On"? I actually didn't even put two and two together until you said that, which is especially shameful for me because I grew up on basically all the girl groups of the 90s, like my mom loved En Vogue, TLC, SWV. And I just didn't even put two and two together that that is oh, it's the same melody as the En Vogue song. So thank you.
Kris Hampton 16:22
Man, I have this really distinct memory. There was a club called Caddies in Cincinnati, that was like the teen club, on Sundays, teenagers could go. So anytime school was out on Monday, it would be packed full of teenagers from all over the city, you know. And there was always this one girl in there, like, the, like the Beyonce of Caddies, you know, just, just beautiful. And all the dudes would be watching her all night. And I have this really distinct memory of her coming down the stairs... there was this really tight stairwell, and you would go up on the right side, people'd be coming down on the left side, and you'd be brushing against each other, you know, and she's coming down the stairs, and there's a line of dudes going up. And they're all stopping and turning around to watch her go down. And she's singing along with the music 'Never gonna get it never gonna get it' and like waving her finger in all the dudes' faces.
Devin Dabney 17:28
This sounds like some, like, Tom and Jerry cartoon-type shit where the people are like floating and they have hearts in their eyes.
Kris Hampton 17:36
Like, I have this very distinct memory of her singing that so anytime I hear En Vogue or any of those 90s girl groups, that's what I think of.
Devin Dabney 17:46
Yeah, yeah, but dude, that's hilarious. I'm so glad I threw that in there. Because yeah, you just, you just like unlocked a whole new appreciation for me for that song. Because I knew I liked it, obviously, it's a really good Jay-Z song. But yeah, you just added another layer of, of flavor to it, honestly. Especially now that you've given me this, like Looney Tunes image of an impossibly beautiful girl.
Kris Hampton 18:14
Yeah. We're gonna add another layer to it here with a quick sidebar. You're familiar with Yung Joc, right?
Devin Dabney 18:23
Oh, man. Am I ever.
Kris Hampton 18:25
Yung Joc from "meet me in the trap, toned down,"
Devin Dabney 18:29
Every barbecue of 2006 played that song multiple times.
Kris Hampton 18:35
Absolutely. I listened to an interview with him from 2010. And the question was, if he's ever passed on a beat that became a hit. And this is what he had to say:
Yung Joc 18:53
So I book to go in with Pharrell. I'm saying like, Yo, I'm in the fucking studio with Pharrell. So I come in, he's like, 'Yo, Joc. So I was thinking, I got a perfect record for you.' Like, 'Aight, whatchu got?' That shit came over like (makes beat sounds) and I was like, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So he gave me his rap flow. And I was like, oh, that's Rakim. Okay, yeah, yeah, I know that shit. He was like, 'Yeah, I think you should do it.' But I was listening to the beat and the concept when I was like, I don't know if that's me. I don't think that's gonna... He's like right here, right here. I was like, Yeah, I want some of that wild shit you do, this shit kind of calm. So while I'm sitting, Puff walk in the studio. What up, what up, what up? Two seconds later, Jay-Z walk in the studio. I'm inna studio with three motherfucking icons and I'm like nigga! Jay-Z got a cigar in his hand. He's just got finished eating some seafood,
Devin Dabney 20:00
Of course.
Yung Joc 20:01
Puff, god damn, I could tell, Puff done had a drink or two, got them shoulders moving. 'What we got!' So Pharrell look at me, he like, he played a beat. And then Jay-Z is like, he's like 'This is for Joc?' I'm looking at Jay-Z like, we're looking over at Pharrell like, 'what's going on?' So he's like 'This is for Joc?' And he's looking at me. Jay-Z was like, 'Yo, Joc. If you don't want it, I'mma take it.' I was like, 'Hold on, what the fuck going on? Is you trying to use Jay-Z to make me... Jay-Z! I mean, this the thing, we talking about Jay Z here, you know, that's a different type of influence. And I'm looking at Jay-Z, and I got to ask myself is this a move they doing to make me be like, 'Okay, I want to do it' because Jay-Z said... and I wouldn't wanna let him have it? Uh uh. And I was like, 'You know what, Jay? I think you should have this beat.' I just, I don't know if that's what I was looking for. So about five months later, I'm in the car. We got that new Jay-Z, from that, uh, American Gangster sound track. And the song came on. And I was like, Oh, shit! They wasn't, they wasn't fooling me! Jay-Z was being truthful! That motherfucker he was like, 'If you don't want it, I'm gonna take it.' So when that's shit came on, I was like 'Look at that shit! We was like going crazy. Like ahhhhh! We ain't making no money off this shit so why you going crazy. So I was like fuck it but that was one of those moments in life, ya know?
Devin Dabney 21:41
Oh, my God. Dude. You know, I love these stories about things that could have happened that never happened in terms of showbusiness. Like, this isn't a music reference, but this made me think of Will Smith passing on "The Matrix" to do "Wild Wild West". First of all, "Wild Wild West" is a national treasure and you're not going to convince me otherwise. Second of all, while it would have been great for Yung Joc to rap on that song, it wouldn't have been what it was, like, we just literally wouldn't have "American Gangster" without, you know what I'm saying? Like so things happen the way they're supposed to. Yeah, I just, I, but I do love these like, little moments of like, inflection where like, oh, it could have happened this way, or it could have went that way. And I also love that Yung Joc was trying to think like three steps ahead and was like, they're trying to do some like Rob Redford "The Sting" shit to me right now. They're trying to set me up to set up a set up.
Kris Hampton 22:46
Yeah, I can't imagine how that would feel. If like, you're like, I don't know. Not really my thing. And then Jay-Z is like, 'Oh, I'm taking it, if you don't take it.' You're gonna be like, 'Oh, I'm missing something. What? What's going on here? I need this beat now.'
Devin Dabney 23:01
It's a good... I mean, honestly, that's a pretty good tactic. Like, if you were friends with like, a famous rapper of some kind, you're like, 'Okay, so here, here's the plan: He's gonna come in at 1:30, I need you to come in at 1:33 when I'm playing the beat, and pretend like you really want it.' I mean, yes, that's.... I mean, it would be really clever, if that's what they were doing. But uh, yeah, I mean, and to your point, like, if, if I was listening to a beat, I'm trying to think of something that maybe I just wouldn't want to rap on.... And then like, I don't know, like, Kendrick Lamar walks in and is like, 'Yo, you don't want this. I'm gonna take it.' I'm gonna probably think my, my decision over like, 'Man, I guess I just haven't found the beat or something.' like what?
Devin Dabney 23:26
Yeah, he does say that later in the interview. He says, 'I didn't know how to rap over it. It's not what I do.'
Devin Dabney 23:54
Well, it, um, the beat kind of mimics Jay-Z's, like, what I think is Jay-Z's bread and butter cadence, which is just, you know, like, four line four words for every bar, or like pausing for a long period of time, coming in and out. Like it raps, it moves the way Jay-Z moves, or at least the way I envision him to move when he's in his element. So yeah, I couldn't really... I mean, Yung Joc could rap over it, obviously. But it's just like a style thing, you know? I mean, yeah, I just wouldn't. I don't know. It wouldn't have been what it was - is - now, you know?
Kris Hampton 24:35
Yeah, I agree. And Joc mentions Rakim in this. He's like, you know, Pharrell gave me this flow. And he's like, 'Yeah, I know that, that's Rakim.' And there's a part in the song where Jay is mimicking a Rakim flow. And it makes me wonder if that's what Pharrell gave to Joc. Like, 'Here's how you rap on this.' And it's when Jay says, 'Whether right or Southpaw, whether pot or the jar, whip it around, it still comes back hard. So easily do I W-H-I-P, my repetition with wristses'll bring the kilo bidness.' First off: wristses? My repetition with wristses? I fucking love that. But that comes from Rakim "My Melody" when Rakim says, 'My name is Rakim Allah, and R and A stand for Ra. Switch it around, still come out R. So easily will I E-M-C-E-E, a repetition of words, just check out my melody.' So, you know that's one of those things we've talked about that we love about hip hop is when they're calling back, referencing what came before, paying homage to what came before. So good.
Devin Dabney 25:49
Yeah. And then just like, while I think that he was interpolating that specific, like section or that, that part like, verse from Rakim, I think one thing that I really wanted to point out that I think is cool about hip hop that maybe some hip hop fans don't necessarily pay attention to is like every rapper has like a - well, at least I think a good rapper has a - distinct flow. You know, obviously, rappers don't always rap in the same rhythms. But usually, like the best rappers have some flow that they prefer, or like a cadence that they use a lot that, that is like distinctly... you know, you know, I mean, like, Rakim has a flow, like if you rapped a certain way, you'd be like, 'Oh, that's how like Rakim raps,' or 'How Big Daddy Kane raps' or 'No wait, this is how like Twista raps,' you know? Like, and I guess like, I don't know. I guess, I don't know. What, what do I know about hip hop, right? But like, when you listen to rappers, like, try to pick out like, the things that they do with rhythm because yeah, that's another indicator of like, 'I'm in my element,' or 'Oh, I'm calling back to this rapper.' Because not even like, even like fast rappers, like Busta Rhymes has a very different fast flow than Twista does. I feel like Twista has a very distinct, like, fast flow that he always does. And so yeah, I just wanted to point that out. Because when you said 'Oh, that's Rakim,' like, that's what I thought. I was like, 'Oh, he recognized Rakim's flow.' Yeah, dude.
Kris Hampton 27:24
That's what makes, that's what makes like the Kendrick's and the Nicki Minaj's so fucking great is that they can switch that on a, you know, just in a second, they're doing a whole different flow. And this just seems to be part of them. Like maybe they work really hard at it to make it sound that way, you know, I'm sure at some point they did. But now it just sounds like they can do that whenever the fuck they want to do it.
Devin Dabney 27:51
Yeah, and that's, that's a skill in itself in hip hop and I don't think that all of the, even some of the best rappers, I don't think necessarily have multiple flows that they just fit really well. You know, like, like when I think of Jay-Z again, I think of the like, stop and start staccato. You know, sort of swaying back and forth kind of like Biggie kind of flow. He can obviously rap fast. But it just, that's when he's in his element. You know what I mean? So to have somebody like, Nicki, who obviously adds voices over the top of it, too, but she truly does have like, a sense of like, comfortability in multiple flows. Which is just like superb. Like that's, that's, that is a skill in itself in hip hop. So yeah, I just wanted to point that out. Because I think that's a layer of, of like, skill in terms of rap that I, that may get missed by casual hip hop fans, or, you know, I don't know, any of us.
Kris Hampton 28:53
Yep. Are you familiar with the "Pharrell four-count start"? Have you encountered this?
Devin Dabney 29:02
No. What's, what is this? Explain it to me. I always learn something with you.
Kris Hampton 29:07
I... somebody realized a few years ago that Pharrell ALWAYS starts ALL of his songs with this four count. And Pharrell had no idea he was doing it. There's an interview with Pharrell, where he's like, 'I don't do it on purpose. You know, it just... we want to start you know, singing or rapping at the top of a song. So there's a four count there to prep you and then it just gets left in, I don't know.' And and I wanted to say this song was not one of those because of the way it starts with this like Frankenstein sample in the music. But then sure enough, there's Pharrell's four count. And I've got a little compilation here of four counts. If you have not encountered this, it might blow your mind.
Devin Dabney 30:00
I can't wait. Yes, please play this!
recording 30:06
AUDIO CLIP - MULTIPLE SONGS PLAY - COMMENTING OVER THE AUDIO:
Devin Dabney 30:17
Yeah, of course... Oh my goodness... Whoa, I don't know if I know this one... Oh my god, wow... Oh goodness, dude... I don't know this one? Oh nevermind, I do... Man, these are some deep cuts... Oh, nice... I like this song... Yeah, I guess that is a four count, yeah... This is like time travel, dude! ...Oh yes! I fucking love this song! I was hoping it was gonna come on! Dude! ...Oh my god, he produced this? ...Oh shoot, dude, I'm losing my fucking mind over here! ...I mean they're all kinda different four counts, you know?
Kris Hampton 32:08
There's sooo many. It goes on... and on... and on.
Devin Dabney 32:12
I've got like, tears in my eyes right now. Dude, I, first of all, if y'all have not listened to "Gust of Wind" by Pharrell, featuring Daft Punk, that shit is fire. It's, it's just funny because like, that's, uh, I mean, that would be Pharrell's flow, if you will. That's his like, little thing. I mean, producers all have things that they prefer too, you know? Like, with some of them it's more obvious than others, like Timbaland likes to beatbox or like, you know, DJ Mustard likes to use the snap sound a lot. Or you know, like everyone has like a thing, but yeah, I guess I just didn't cognate that Pharrell always has to do that stutter like, 'I'm gonna play the first part of the beat four times and then we'll, we'll come back in.'
Kris Hampton 33:03
And it's great because you can't stop from nodding your head when it starts that way. Like when, when it's just hitting on that four count you have to start getting into it and and then you're in it.
Devin Dabney 33:18
Yeah, well, you know what else is, what I think is actually kind of great about the fact that he does that over and over again is because he does it with such a wide array of beats. You don't notice it. Like it, I mean, like the beat for "Alright" by Kendrick Lamar is very different than the beat for "Gust of Wind" featuring Daft Punk. The rhythms are so different that doing that stutter-stop-start thing changes it so like "Drop It Like It's Hot" has a different rhythm then we gon' be "Alright". Or you know, like just it, it does add an element to it though it is funny that he was kind of just like slipping that in for 25 years and I didn't notice.
Kris Hampton 34:03
Yeah, and some of those like especially the "Drop It Like It's Hot", "Alright", a lot of those, "Happy", are so signature that when they come on, like by the second count, you know what it is.
Devin Dabney 34:22
Oh, yeah, without a doubt.
Kris Hampton 34:23
It's like playing a game of "Name That Tune" or whatever. As soon as that note hits, you know exactly what's happening.
Devin Dabney 34:30
100%. Yeah, that's, that's what I was thinking of when, when I said the, the unique stop and start because the, the beat for "Drop It Like It's Hot" Has that like, swing sort of kick. Yeah. And so when it plays like that, it kind of has a very distinct rhythm. Side note, have you ever heard of, everyone's playing Wordle right now, have you heard of Heardle?
Kris Hampton 34:54
Only because of you. You posted it on Instagram. And then I started playing. Questlove also plays.
Devin Dabney 35:01
Does he really? That might make me come out of retirement. I retired like Jay-Z from Heardle because the first two times that I played Heardle, I got it on my first try. And I was like, 'Nope, I can't. I win. Like, I've beat the game. I don't want to, I don't want to go in.' Because if I get one in two tries now, I'm going to be disappointed, but yeah. It was like... I can't remember the two songs. Oh, I do. It was "I Wanna Dance with Somebody" which has that really distinct 808 clap riff. Again: rhythm! I'm like 'Ope! That - I know what that is.' And then "Rude Boy", which has that really distinct vocal sample, and I'm like, 'Come on, y'all! Like, I thought I thought this was a game.' You know, like.
Devin Dabney 35:01
Yeah, "Rude Boy" was the first time I played when you posted it.
Devin Dabney 35:47
Heck, yeah.
Kris Hampton 35:48
And then the next day, I didn't get it at all. So...
Devin Dabney 35:50
Well, what was it?
Kris Hampton 35:51
But I got "Rude Boy" first try. I don't remember!
Devin Dabney 35:53
Oh, shit! I want to know! You're making me want to play but I don't want to... I mean, I have two title belts, you know, I don't want to go back if I'm not gonna... I can't do better than I already did. But oh, shoot. Wow, what a journey. I hope that it was enjoyable watching me flip out to these different throwbacks of Pharrell.
Kris Hampton 36:15
It's so fun to listen to.
Devin Dabney 36:17
Yeah, that was awesome.
Kris Hampton 36:18
And it could go on another 10 minutes, you know? There's sooo many of them. It's unbelievable. Alright. Last thing I want to say about this song, and I, you know, I talked about this in the Lessons episode. For me, it just hit me at a time when I really, really needed somebody to tell me to keep getting it. You know, it was starting a business, considering leaving a career to start a business. There was so much going on in my life at the time, I just needed that lesson from somebody. Like you talked about earlier, you just feel, this song just feels like he's teaching you something, he's directly talking to you. And he delivered that for me. And it could have been damn near any subject matter. As long as he's talking hustling and how to make it happen. That, for me, it was a little more literal for me in the song, but just in terms of like, there were little pieces I could pick out that was like, 'Oh, that relates, I relate to that, you know, really strongly.' But, but I needed it. And he delivered.
Devin Dabney 37:41
Yeah, it's, it's really interesting to hear how this song affected you versus how it came off to me because, yeah, I think I may have said this already but I took it very, in like a mythical sort of way, of like a larger-than-life, like, you know, reporting-live-from-the-top-of-the-mountain sort of way. I mean, I was, I was 14, or something. I was a teenager, when the song came out, I was actually just starting to rap when this song came out. So I think in some ways, this kind of cemented me looking up to Jay-Z as a rapper. Because again, like this is probably one of the greatest examples of what I think is his trademark flow. And just, this is a flow, this flow specifically, among a lot of them others, is like one that I analyzed of like, 'Why do I like this?' Like, 'Why is this different from Ludacris or, or TI or?' I mean, I was really into southern rap that time, at that time. So I'm gonna reference a lot of southern rappers but like, 'Why is this different from from Gucci Mane or, or just like all these other like, what makes this so distinct from them?' And so, yeah.
Kris Hampton 38:52
Did you always embrace that Jay-Z stop and start flow? Or was it something that had to grow on you?
Devin Dabney 38:58
It definitely had to grow on me. I mean, to be honest, this might get me like in trouble with hip hop fans, but Jay-Z wasn't necessarily my favorite rapper growing up. And I had "The Black Album", "The Black Album" was actually one of the first albums I ever like had personally like bought myself. Yeah, so that's, it was actually the second album I'd ever bought myself. The first album was "Country Grammar" by Nelly.
Kris Hampton 39:26
Man, I have great memories of that album too.
Devin Dabney 39:28
Good grief, I love that album! But yeah, like so I had the album and like, I feel like such an idiot saying this now. I liked like "Dirt Off Your Shoulder" and "Moment of Clarity", but the rest of the songs I was kinda like, 'Ah, you know, they're fine.' So I guess like, it just, Jay-Z as a rapper didn't really grow on me until until I was like starting to rap and I understood why he was so good. And yeah, I didn't think he was trash, but do you know what I mean? Like he just wasn't... like I said I was super into southern rap. So you know, I loved, I loved Three 6 Mafia, like Ludacris was probably my favorite rapper for a long time. And then of course, like TI. TI has always kind of just been like, solidly number, like my fifth favorite rapper ever. Like he's never moved up and down. But yeah, that's who I was really listening to at that time. And this kind of was the beginning of me starting to be like, 'Ah shit, like Jay-Z's kind of really fucking good actually. Like, really good.'
Kris Hampton 40:31
I feel that there was definitely a period where I had watched, I had watched Jay live, not, not at a concert, not in person, but on TV, watched him live. And he just seemed like a really lazy performer in that show. So I had kind of written him off and, and then "Renegade" came out. And it was the first time that you could really, or at least the first time I did, it's definitely not the first time anyone could, but first time I really compared him to someone else with lyrical dexterity. And it's one of Eminem's best verses, you know, so, so it's maybe an unfair comparison. But Jay uses that stop and start flow in "Renegade" and, you know, very contrasting with Eminem's verse, and at first, I was like, 'Oh, you know, same as Nas said, Jay-Z just got murdered on his own shit.' But years later listening to it, I'm like, 'Oh, there's a fucking genius to what Jay-Z was doing here.' And being confident enough to put it up against Em's verse, which was already there. That's, that's mind blowing to me.
Devin Dabney 41:59
Yeah. Yeah. You know, the longer that I think about that song, like, the harder it is to say, who, who's verse is better just because, like, they are so different. And they are both so like, at the peak of their abilities on that song. But yeah, I mean, it's just interesting how, you know, time... and I think just as a writer and a rapper like understanding it, or hip hop fan, not, not necessarily just a rapper, but just understanding the like craft and like, the different styles and, and cadences and everything that goes into rapping, I think that if you know that, I think if the average person got on a microphone and tried to even just rap along with songs, they would see like, 'Oh, it isn't just talking into a mic.' Like, you know, like it... even if you say all the words on beat, it still may not sound good if you're not like delivering it properly, if you don't have the correct intonation, if you're not hitting the syllables that need to be hit to emphasize parts of the flow, like... Rap is so hard to like, it is really fucking hard. And it's really, really hard to be good at it. So yeah, just I don't know, just talking about this just like gets me so stoked about the craft because it really is a craft. And it's like, cool to watch someone like Jay-Z, who obviously is good at it, but has his own style to it, too. And on top of that, he's trying to teach you some shit. Like, it's just, it's amazing.
Kris Hampton 43:37
Alright, what are your favorite bars from the song?
Devin Dabney 43:40
Oh, this one's actually an easy choice for me. It's, uh, "Blame Reagan for making me into a monster."
Kris Hampton 43:48
I knew you were gonna say that.
Devin Dabney 43:48
"Blame Oliver North and Iran-Contra." Oh my god, how did you, how'd you know? Right? Again, so many things about this are amazing, right? There's the obvious reference to Ronald Reagan. And just again, like the end, he actually goes on in the next line to underline this, but the homonym of 'Iran-Contra' as in like the controversy with Iran-Contra and 'I ran contra', to the point where when I heard that the first time I thought he was saying "Blame Oliver North, I ran contra." Like he's saying 'blame him because I did that.' But then later I was like, 'Oh, shit. He's saying Iran-Contra.' not like, it doesn't sound like anything when I say it, but I'm like he's saying 'Iran-Contra not I ran contra.'
Kris Hampton 44:38
Well, yeah, that's some of the fucking brilliance of Jay-Z is that he can, he can say these really complicated bars in a way that you repeat them for years without ever realizing what it is that you're saying. And this, these bars are a really great example of that, you just mentioned the the homonym of Iran-Contra and I ran contraband. And that, the next line, you know, "I ran contraband that they sponsored, before this rhymin' shit, we was in concert."
Devin Dabney 45:10
Hell yeah.
Kris Hampton 45:11
The like, double entendre of concert being when you first hear it, it sounds confusing like 'before this rhyme shit, we was in concert'? Why? Why are you doing concerts before the rhyme shit? But it's concert like we were, we were in sync. This is how we were, you know, this is how the drug game was going. We were all in sync. We were making this happen and sliding under the law by, you know, by being in concert with each other. It's fucking amazing.
Devin Dabney 45:42
Yeah, and it's actually kind of a cool, I love, I also love that line too, because it, it brings like a... it's obviously a homonym or like, a what? I can't remember what literary device that is, saying we were in concert when he really means something else. But it also adds this like symphonic element to it of like, we were in sync, like we were flowing like a concert, but not that concert. But it does have similarities to the concert you might be thinking of.
Kris Hampton 46:12
Yeah, it's brilliant.
Devin Dabney 46:13
It's just, it's one thing to have a homonym but it's another when the two versions of that word are working together. Like, I don't know, dude. Like that's like, this should be like a college degree. Like I should be able to major in rap because there really is like, a lot of, there's just so many skills you have to have. So yeah, that's my favorite without a doubt, but what's yours?
Kris Hampton 46:37
Well, before I tell you mine, spin off sidebar. You just reminded me of this talking about how difficult rap is, like if you just, if you try to sing along with a song you'll realize that it's pretty hard. And then Jay-Z saying "Blame Reagan for making me into a monster." I have karaoked "Monster" with my friends Johnny and Hannah in El Paso, Texas. And, and I have to tell you, it was fire.
Devin Dabney 47:10
Dude. That is, uh, yeah, let me, let me know next time.
Kris Hampton 47:15
And I did Jay's verse in the karaoke.
Devin Dabney 47:17
Okay. Yeah, I was like, I was like 'Kris, you probably, you probably did...' Yeah, that's the one that would fit you. I was gonna say like, I'm gonna do Kanye's verse, that's, that's the verse that I can do the best. But it's hilarious. That, that would be such a fun song to karaoke especially if you had five people, you know. Like if you had someone come in real quick for the the Rick Ross verse, maybe your friend that's like a little too drunk? Like 'Okay, you just do these four bars, and then get off the stage.' And then yeah, I don't know. That would be a hella fun song to karaoke. So good. Good call there. Damn.
Kris Hampton 47:53
We also, we also did, my wife and I did a Fugees' song that night. And she did the Lauryn verses, I did all the guys' verses. The only time she's ever karaoked and she chose to karaoke Lauryn Hill. It was amazing.
Devin Dabney 48:08
The first thing I ever karaoked was "Little Red Corvette". And I can assure you that when I karaoke rap songs, it's way better.
Devin Dabney 48:08
How have I never thought to karaoke hip hop songs? I guess because I'm always like, I'm gonna make a fool of myself when I do karaoke. Like, it's always like Queen, or like something like wild. I remember when that sunflower song from the Spider Man movie came out? I karaoked that with a friend of mine. I'd never think to pick a hip hop song for some reason. It's always like, I'm gonna pick some pop song.
Devin Dabney 48:46
Holy crap. Alright, next time, next time I... God, next time I go to a karaoke bar? When will that be? But that's, it sounds like it would actually be a blast.
Kris Hampton 48:56
We'll just, we'll have karaoke while you're here this summer.
Devin Dabney 48:59
Yeah, yeah, like at the climbers festival. Good grief! Oh, shoot. Good sidebar. Okay, what was your favorite bars from the song?
Kris Hampton 49:09
For me, and I do these bars in the Lessons episode as well, but it's, "You already know what the business is. Unnecessary commissary, boy we live this shit. They want to bring the 80s back. That's okay with me, that's where they made me at." I love it. That's, the 80s is where I was made. The commissary line speaks to me because of this hustle I had while I was locked up and never had to, had to buy commissary because I was hustling for, for what I needed, you know, and providing a service to everybody else. So yeah, that, that really spoke to me like 'Take it back. You don't have to be... you don't have to be ashamed of the time you spent locked up. You made some mistakes. You did your time. And you learned some valuable skills while you were in there. Go back to that. Use those skills now.' So yes, I needed those bars.
Devin Dabney 50:12
Absolutely, yeah. And I loved hearing how the song like affected you in that, in that moment and how you were able to tie, tie it back to your life and use it as a like mechanism to propel forward. I think, of course, like because hip hop is so counterculture, or at least at one point, it was very counterculture, that we always hear about how like, oh, like 'rap is making black people kill each other and sell crack and all this' but, but people of course, you never hear about how like, someone... how like, "Keep Ya Head Up" by Tupac helped somebody or how, like, what you just said about the Jay-Z song, how it resonated with you. I mean, like, I've never been to, I've never been to jail or done like anything super serious. But that, but these types of like lessons and stories still had a very profound effect on me as a kid. Honestly, some of them probably made me keep myself on a straight and narrow. But like, yeah, like I guess I just really appreciated that one. Because it was like, very honest. And also, because you just don't hear about how rappers talking about their experiences, their negative experiences, does have a positive effect. It isn't always like, 'Oh, he went to jail. I want to go to jail.' Like, doesn't, doesn't quite work that way. But, you know.
Kris Hampton 51:40
Yeah. It's like, that whole conversation is sort of like blaming the documentary about the thing, for causing the thing, you know? Rap music is a documentary.
Devin Dabney 51:54
Yeah. Like, and if you, again, like Jay-Z says, if you want to blame anyone, blame Reagan, okay? Like, it's not the, hip hop is not, hip hop didn't create the ghetto and like, drugs. It is coming out of that. Like, it's, it's not the thing that created it, it's being created because of the thing. At that time, like when it was first starting, it was like, yeah, it was just like, 'Reporting live from the thing that's happening,' you know? Not necessarily.... And again, like, I think I said this earlier but, a person that is not really into hip hop culture, which, at that point especially, was black culture specifically, you don't understand a lot of the things they're talking about, and you don't know why they're talking about them. And you don't, you don't really know the effect that they have on these, on these kids. Like you're not living the life that they're living. So how could you say, you know, how it affects them? So yeah, I just, I just really appreciate that because it's just, it's something that I talk a lot about with hip hop. And just like when people are like, 'Oh, it causes gang violence.' I'm like, 'Are you really like listening to it? Do you know, do you know, do you know how many positive stories are in hip hop?' And I mean, hip hop was my like... I learned more in music than I did in school, I feel like. Because...
Kris Hampton 53:15
Same.
Devin Dabney 53:16
...the people who were talking to me on my records, understood my life better than, than my teachers. And a lot of times, like they were teaching me more practical things than my teachers were teaching me. And I had, I had teachers that I liked, you know, most of my teachers were awesome. But do you get what I'm saying? Like where, I mean, like hip hop was where a lot of, I mean, that is where my political, like, knowledge started, you know? That is, that was where my interest in politics came from. Not from my government class. That shit was boring. It didn't relate to me at all.
Kris Hampton 53:48
Yeah, Chuck D taught me way more than history class did.
Devin Dabney 53:53
Yeah, exactly. Like yeah, it was like Public Enemy. I guess I didn't realize what I was really listening to back then. But I knew I liked Public Enemy and I liked their energy. And I think just like Lupe and Killer Mike were the two that really made me like, 'Oh, shit, like, all this shit's fucked up.' Like it just really like, think about it. But yeah, man. Great music. Great message. Great flow. Like this song has everything.
Kris Hampton 54:23
Yeah. Well, before we wrap this thing up, I also want to make sure I say a thank you to you for doing the Pharrell falsetto part in the Lessons episode. Because there was no fucking way I was going to try to do a falsetto. I hit my limit trying to sing Lauryn Hill's part. I wasn't even going to try this falsetto. No way.
Devin Dabney 54:50
You know, it's funny. So yesterday, when, when I was telling you about this, listening to this episode, you had the earlier version on there. And when you sing that part, I can definitely tell there's a point where you're like, 'This is as high as I can go. I'm just gonna dip it down.' Like you're like going up above and then you're just like, 'The hell was that? I don't want to do it. I don't want it enough. I'll just have Devin do it.'
Kris Hampton 55:18
I gave it the one shot. That was all it was getting.
Devin Dabney 55:21
Yeah, the good old college try is really all that you have to do. And then yeah, I can always, always impersonate a singer. And it'll be good most of the time. So...
Kris Hampton 55:32
Yeah, you crushed it. So thank you. Thank you. Alright. If you're watching this on YouTube, or listening to it anywhere but Spotify, you're missing half of the podcast. This here today is a Liner Notes episode. Every other Tuesday, we release Lessons episodes. Those are short, focused essays set to beats by Devin, followed by the full song that we're learning a lesson from, get those on Spotify. You can also, on Spotify, check out the Hip Hop Taught Me Everything Season One playlist, which is a playlist I put together that includes all of the tracks, thus far anyway, that we know are going to be in Season One. I reserve the right to add a song or two. But the playlist is fire. It's gotten great reviews from people, I've heard lots of great feedback. People love the playlist. So go check that out. Link is right there in your show notes. All of the links, videos, bonus material that we mentioned, is at the blog post for these episodes at hiphoptaughtmeeverything.com including full transcripts. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube. And we'll see you next time when a four-man crew from Queens teaches me authenticity.
Devin Dabney 56:46
Nice!