Liner Notes | Ski Mask the Slump God’s “Foot Fungus”
Artist: Ski Mask the Slump God
Song: Foot Fungus
Producers: Kenny Beats and Roofeeo
Album: STOKELEY
Label: Victor Victor Worldwide/Republic Records
Release Date: November 30, 2018
What’s your “guilty pleasure” song(s)?
Devin: “Eazy-Duz-It” by Eazy-E
Kris: George Strait’s entire catalogue
What are your favorite bars from “Foot Fungus”?
Devin:
Captain Long John Silver, I'm gonna reel 'em in.
Got on goat fur cream color coat from Burberry's den.
Kris:
Please take shelter, spit it like a pronounced letter.
Links/Videos mentioned in this episode:
Watch Devin and Kris’s live recording of this episode on YouTube:
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Devin Dabney 00:08
I'm Devin Dabney.
Kris Hampton 00:10
I'm Kris Hampton.
Devin Dabney 00:10
And this is how… Hip Hop Taught Me Everything. Okay, first of all, if you haven't listened to this week's episode, "Ski Mask the Slump God Taught Me Humility", go do that right now. And because it's a Music + Talk podcast, it's only available on Spotify. And with Spotify Premium, you're able to listen to the full song right after the episode plays, which, in this case, the song is "Foot Fungus." It's still weird to say that. Now, before we get into our actual liner notes, Kris, I have a question for you this time.
Kris Hampton 00:53
Alright, I'm ready.
Devin Dabney 00:54
Um, what is your guilty pleasure song? And for clarity's sake, a guilty pleasure song doesn't have to be like, a pop song. Like it really just means a song that you feel like embarrassed to listen to around other people, but you secretly love.
Kris Hampton 01:13
So when you first posed this question to me, I thought of it as like, when you're bumping something really loud, but then you pull up to a red light and there's people there already and you're like, oh, gotta turn this down.
Devin Dabney 01:32
Kinda!
Kris Hampton 01:32
That's how I thought of it. And my answer's kind of complicated because now that I'm ancient, I like I don't really get embarrassed anymore. I'm just kind of like, I'm gonna listen to whatever the fuck I want. Like I've been there done that, youngin', you know, that's kind of how I feel. I'll do what I want now. But I will say that one of my guilty pleasures which I really own now, like I, I fully own it now, is George Strait's entire catalogue.
Devin Dabney 02:13
Yes!
Kris Hampton 02:14
Just, just the best fucking storyteller. I fucking love it. I listened to his like hundred number ones or whatever album. Yeah, straight through. I fucking love it.
Devin Dabney 02:28
Dude, I didn't even think about other genres. What? What am I doing? Holy shit. I almost want to like stop the recording and think about this again.
Kris Hampton 02:38
Well, I did have a hip hop one as well. And if I had to choose the hip hop one, it would be Jibbs's "Chain Hang Low".
Devin Dabney 02:46
Man. I would unabashedly bump that song today.
Kris Hampton 02:51
I will not turn it down at a red light. I might turn it up, actually. But it's not the kind of song I'm normally listening to, but every time it comes on, I just can't help myself.
Devin Dabney 03:04
Man. Good grief. That's a, that's a great one, dude. You know, um I mean, I guess I wouldn't have changed my answer necessarily, because I will unabashedly bump country music, I don't give a fuck. Like I love, I love country music. You know, this was tough for me to answer because most music I will listen to, like, and not turn down at a red light. The one thing that I do turn down is gangsta rap. Like I feel, I feel because of my like temperament? And it almost, for me to be listening to it, I always feel like I'm not supposed to be listening to gangsta rap. And it's not because like I wasn't raised around it or anything. I just feel like because I'm not a gangster that I don't like deserve to listen to it? It's a really weird thing that I have but the song I specifically think of is "Eazy-Duz-It" by Eazy-E.
Kris Hampton 04:00
Yeahhh.
Devin Dabney 04:01
And one of the main reasons that I think of that song is because I don't say "bitches" in regular conversation. I don't, I don't like that term for women at all actually. But the song "Eazy-Duz-It" opens with "Well, I'm Eazy-E, I got bitches galore. You may have a lot of bitches, but I got much more." And I just fucking love that!
Kris Hampton 04:25
When I was like 13 or 14, I fucking loved that shit!
Devin Dabney 04:29
It's just such a... that line is why Eazy-E is great, because it isn't like an amazing metaphor, but it's just so simply beautiful, of like, "You may have 13 bitches and that is a lot, however I have much more than 13." and I just love it. I scream that line every time it comes on, and I just would not do that in mixed company.
Kris Hampton 04:56
Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. And that's really funny because I have this very distinct memory. We're going to go on a little sidebar here: I used to teach country line-dancing.
Devin Dabney 05:10
What? You've done every-fucking-thing!
Kris Hampton 05:13
At a country bar. And it was just so much fun to go and dance. And, you know, lots and lots of women and I was fresh out of fresh out of college, high school era, you know. And I remember leaving the country bar multiple times, and there was a red light that you had to sit at forever. And I would pull up to that red light. And I always played "The Chronic" when I was leaving the country bar. I would have it as loud as I could possibly have it. And every single time, somebody would look over at me with their cowboy hat on, you know, and just bob their heads. Yeah, you can't like...
Devin Dabney 05:58
You can't not!
Kris Hampton 05:59
Yeah, you can't escape it.
Devin Dabney 06:00
No, no, that's, uh, you know, that's the thing. I mean, and honestly, that kind of, you said it was a sidebar, but it kind of relates to this episode's topic of like, just having the humility to admit that music is music, you know? I think people get so wrapped up in this, like, "I don't listen to rap," or "I don't listen to country," or whatever it is. But at the end of the day, if somebody kicks a beat that is nice, and like the, the music is good, and the rhythm is good, you're gonna nod your head - it doesn't matter if it's rap, rock, classical, bluegrass, whatever. Music is music, you know?
Kris Hampton 06:37
Yeah, totally. You know what... two quick sidebars on the topic of hip hop, and, and this whole, like guilty pleasures. Music being music. Number 1: when I was like, young, you know, 12, 13, 14, I really liked Heavy D and The Boyz. And at the time, a lot of the other people that I knew who were listening to hip hop, were like "That shit soft." You know? "What about Wu-Tang?" And, you know, at the time when Wu-Tang came out, I'm still listening to Heavy D and The Boyz and Wu-Tang. They're like, "You're not listening to that hard shit," you know? Now, when I listen to all these rappers on podcasts, so many of them are naming Heavy D as an influence, or someone they really looked up to, or the person that you know, put them on, and I'm just like, "Fuck, why did I ever feel like I shouldn't be listening to Heavy D because he's soft?"
Devin Dabney 07:46
Dude. You know, it's, I have the exact same story from my like adolescence, but it's, this is the generation, I guess, where it shows. For me, that was Kanye West. So I loved, like when "College Dropout" came out, I played that album, probably 100, like I probably listened to that whole album every single day for a solid two years. And I remember yeah, my friends like, "Kanye's soft. Like, he's not even a rapper. He's a producer." What about like T.I. and Lil' Flip and Young Buck? And I would then, like, exactly like you said, I was listening to both. And now 20 years later, who are all these people saying that is -and I mean, the reference is kind of tainted now because of Kanye's public image but - who are all these people saying are a reference like, a an inspiration to him? Who just won his 24th Grammy, which is the most Grammys any hip hop artist ever has won? Kanye West. It just, yeah... and that again, it's just like, why are we... why do we do that with music? Like, why are we putting up these invisible boundaries about what's okay to listen to? Or like, why does it "being hard" even matter? I mean, it's a problem with hip hop and I think it's changing but yeah. I mean, like, I say all that but I also had to learn this for myself in terms of old and new music, right? Of like, that's what this whole episode with Ski Mask was about, was me letting go of that barrier that I had around old and new and like, "Oh, all the new rappers are trash." You know, I'm curious, for you, because I know it's gonna be different, do you remember like, when was there like a moment or a time period where you realized or thought, "Oh, man, all these new rappers are trash." Like, when you first consciously thought that?
Kris Hampton 09:45
Um, yeah, for sure. I mean, I don't remember exactly when it was. You know, I've mentioned here before that I have a 25 year old daughter and definitely some of the things she was listening to as a teenager. I was like, "Hmmm, nah." But, but I also reserve the right to just like some things and not like some things, you know?
Devin Dabney 10:13
Right.
Kris Hampton 10:13
That's totally okay. So there, there's kind of always been new artists that I'm embracing, but then new artists that I don't necessarily like. I feel like because of my daughter, I've given new artists a chance. Especially as I get older, I try to give new artists a chance. I would bet that in my 20's, there was a time and that's, you know, that's too far away for me to remember at this point, but there was...
Devin Dabney 10:46
Yeah, when they were building the pyramids...
Kris Hampton 10:50
There was a time for sure, back then, where I was like, "Fuck this new shit."
Devin Dabney 10:57
Yeah, it's, uh, I think like, you - and I think this is true for anybody, which is why, part of why I think it's a fallacy, is - like, there's always going to be rappers that are not good. And rappers that are good. It doesn't matter if it's old or new. But I can tell you the specific moment that I actually started to think that was, I was in college - and I don't know if they still do this, but - XXL used to release cyphers, and periodically, so they would gather up all the, you know, the XXL freshmen or the you know, the new class of rappers. And it would kind of be this like, who's who of the next coming generation of rappers. And there was a XXL cypher that had Denzel Curry, Lil' Dicky, Lil' Yachty, Lil' Uzi Vert, - lotta lil's - and 21 Savage.
Kris Hampton 11:47
This was the age of the lil's.
Devin Dabney 11:49
Yeah, yeah, this was definitely... it was either the middle of it, or it was like becoming like something else. Because I mean, Denzel Curry was in there. So I think that's when it started to become "let's name myself my name" like Kendrick Lamar, or whatever. But yeah, I remember, I remember that cipher because I remember liking Denzel Curry's verse, and honestly, that was it. I don't know, there was a moment when like 21 Savage was rapping where I was like, "That's it. Hip hop died." Like, it's like, "This is the benediction. 21 Savage is saying the benediction." And, and I, I'm laughing now because like, most of those rappers I listen to now. And it's just so silly in retrospect, because it's no more dead or alive than it was 20 years ago, you know?
Kris Hampton 12:37
Yeah, for sure. You know, when I was younger, and like really learning about hip hop, it wasn't so much that you can't understand what they're saying or they're, you know, they're radically different from what, what came before. It was more like they weren't "real" quote, unquote real.
Devin Dabney 12:56
Yeah. Oh, that's that's so true, too. Yeah.
Kris Hampton 12:59
Back then there was this whole push in "you have to be real," even though, you know, Dre was never a fucking gangster. And Cube was never a gangster. You know, they were journalists - they were telling real things - but they weren't gangsters. And definitely, there was this moment with like, Vanilla Ice, when Vanilla Ice was really popular, and, you know, I'm a fucking white kid who loves hip hop, and I see Vanilla Ice and I'm like, "Fuck, yeah!" So, so I'm like, learning the dances to "Ice, Ice, Baby"...
Devin Dabney 13:32
Oh, no! Little did you know!
Kris Hampton 13:36
And then 3rd Bass comes out with "Pop Goes the Weasel". And I'm immediately, like, "Fuck Vanilla Ice!" Years later, a lot of my performances, I would start the instrumental to "Ice, Ice, Baby", just to stop the room because the room would be like, "Uhhh what the fuck is this?" you know, and then it would like record scratch, cut off, and a different beat would come on. And people fucking loved it. And I had a ton of fun with that. But in reality, "Ice, Ice, Baby" was kind of a banger.
Devin Dabney 14:13
Yeah, and, I mean, even if you look at the lyrics to that song, for the 90s they're pretty good. Like, you know what I mean? Like, especially for the 90s, like, he's got some he's got some level two similes and metaphors in there, you know? I mean, he's not just like... there's some $5 words being thrown around. Like, it never was really necessarily about skill. It's like the zeitgeist, you know? Like the culture. And at a time, the culture was centered around skill. It's not anymore. And I think that's probably one of the hardest things for me to let go of, you know? I think of that XXL cypher and I actually remember either, it must have been either soon after that or the year before, but BET has cyphers, used to have cyphers, at the BET awards, and...
Kris Hampton 15:04
Those were great.
Devin Dabney 15:06
Oh my god, I think of the Shady cypher where like, everyone was fucking good, dude. And then of course Eminem had like one of the best verses that he's ever had, you know? So I go from that to like, you know, a bunch of Lil's that I can't really understand. Of course, it probably made it seem worse than it actually was, but that's, those are just two literal different parts of the culture. What makes rappers good and what makes rappers successful are both two different things, for one, and also totally subjective. What's that Kendrick line? Like, some, he says something about like, "If you cared about rapping, like Killer Mike would be platinum."
Kris Hampton 15:49
Yeah, yeah.
Devin Dabney 15:50
And it's true. I mean, you even said a couple weeks ago when we recorded for a different episode, like one of the best battle rappers ever is Supernatural. I don't know any Supernatural. So you know, when we're talking about doing recordings or episodes for this podcast, like this episode was probably the first thing that I thought of because it was such a huge defining moment in how I looked at hip hop music, and especially being friends with you, someone who also knows hip hop really well. It just gave me a greater appreciation for just, like, the library of music we have available if you let go of your, like, misconceptions about what's good and, and cool, you know?
Kris Hampton 16:30
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Let's, uh, let's talk about the song "Foot Fungus".
Devin Dabney 16:36
You know, I can't really give you a lot of like fun facts, or like... let's just say that there wasn't a lot of like premeditation or like, you know - Ski Mask wasn't like at a chalkboard trying to figure out how the pieces were going to go together, "Beautiful Mind" style. What I do think is really interesting, though, is the process of production that went behind it. I think I may have even sent you this video. But I found a video on Genius where Kenny Beats explained how he made this beat. It was so fascinating to hear about his process, right? Like, I've said this a million times, I don't think producers get enough credit. Because, you know, they... it's one thing to be a talent, but a producer has to amplify the talent in the right way, you know, and yeah, he, I mean... first of all, you should just watch the video if you haven't. We can drop a link in the show notes. But it's just so interesting how like, you know, it has like, the beat has these like radio sounds and it's and Kenny Beats says it's because he just produced "FM!" for Vince Staples. So he was fucking with radio sounds a lot. If you just listen to the song, like just the lyrics, you would think there's nothing to it. But when you listen to how he explains the beat and the different parts of it, it's a story, like it's a literal progression of all these different parts that you're not even like consciously paying attention to. But it enhances what Ski Mask is performing, right? Something that looks simple is not necessarily simple. And just because someone makes something look easy, or it feels simple, especially with music, it's not always simple.
Kris Hampton 18:15
Yeah, I agree. I, I thought that video was really great. I've watched a lot of like, how-the-song-was-produced-type videos, and that's for sure one of the best ones. I love that what Kenny Beats is doing is, you know, he's more than a beat maker, at that point. He's he's producing the song he's making it specifically at that point for Ski Mask. And it's like, he understands what Ski Mask is doing and trying to mold it to fit him. And that like the gelling of the two of them is, is brilliant, really. There was something I noticed when looking at the the album that I thought was hilarious. And this is just a quick side note here, but the alliteration that's in here, the "Foot Fungus", "Faucet Failure", "Get Geeked", "Reborn to Rebel". There's a bunch of songs with alliteration, that I think are hilarious. And I think that's one of the things about this song, is there seems to be this like just fun, carefree feeling and attitude. And I think Kenny Beats as producer really tapped into that and allowed Ski Mask to do that on this song.
Devin Dabney 19:42
A hundred percent, hundred percent. You know, one of the things that he said at the very end of that video I referenced, when he makes music, and it was kind of advice to other producers like, when you make music, you have to include a little bit of your weird side, like your authentic side, because otherwise what you're doing... he was, I mean, arguably he's saying, what you're doing doesn't have value if you don't include a piece of yourself. Like it's just gonna be a beat, and to me, like you said, that's the difference between a beat maker and a producer - is like a producer is personally invested in the project, you know, and they... it's not about them, but, but by it not being about him, it became exactly about him. If he were trying to make the greatest beat ever and have all these like synths and horns and, and chopped up samples, like the song wouldn't be what it is. But it's this perfect mixture of like, it's clearly focused on Ski Mask's voice, but there's also a bunch of dope shit happening in the beat that just amplifies what Ski Mask is saying.
Kris Hampton 20:48
Yeah, this this beat... there's something he doesn't talk about in the video that I wish I could see another video of him discussing just this, is that... and I don't know when it came about, like, did it come about because of something Ski Mask said over the beat? Or did it come about because of just Kenny Beats? And this is something that I love when hip hop does - it's one of my favorite things about hip hop - is like, understanding the lineage of it and what inspiration people are drawing from. And taking something that was someone else's and turning it into your own, I think, is one of the most beautiful things about hip hop.
Devin Dabney 21:33
Absolutely.
Kris Hampton 21:34
And this song, the drum pattern, and some of the vocals are straight from "Drop It Like It's Hot". Snoop, Snoop and Pharrell. And, and I think that's brilliant.
Devin Dabney 21:49
That "skeeeuuuooo,"
Kris Hampton 21:50
Yeah, exactly! Where in "Drop It Like It's Hot" it's "Snoop", you know? It's Pharrell saying "Snoooooooop". He's doing that, and then he's, you know, following that same melodic pattern that Snoop does and Pharrell does on "Drop It Like It's Hot". It's, it's so cool and that, like, callback to something that I loved, you know, 15 years ago, or whenever that was; it just evokes this nostalgia that I don't even realize I need at that moment, and I love it for that.
Devin Dabney 22:25
Yeah, it also just kind of brings you, it brings you to - either to or up to - their level, you know. Like it makes you kind of understand where they're coming from because like, like, it's not really about the words. It's really about the feeling. And so, the song that I thought of - a different song that does this - it's a Key Glock song, I think it's called "Dough", where he he interpolates the "one to the two, to the three and to the four," and and just that, like when he does that, it's the exact same thing for me where I'm like, it evokes nostalgia, but it also makes me like rap along with the rest of the song of Key Glock's. And it just helps me like, it helps me catch the beat, so to speak, of like, "Alright, I get it. I get what this is about, because he spoke in a language that I understand," you know?
Devin Dabney 22:25
Yeah. And it lets you like, it lets me imagine Ski Mask, young Ski Mask, listening to "Drop It Like It's Hot" the same way that I did, you know? So, I love it.
Devin Dabney 23:29
Yeah, and, and, you know, I'm almost like, I shouldn't even be embarrassed to admit this but, I didn't even realize that that was what Ski Mask was referencing. I thought he was just being silly. See, and that's what I'm talking about, though, is like, it's what seems silly and simple in hip hop is actually like layers, layers deep. I mean, hip hop is such a deep culture that something as silly as saying "skeeeuuuooo" is like, actually, a 20 year -a reference 20 years in the making, you know?
Kris Hampton 24:00
Yeah, I didn't, I didn't catch it the first time or two I listened to the song like I, I recognized the pattern, but I didn't intellectualize it like, "Oh, this is where that's from," you know? It's just a, it's just a part of hip hop now. That's how it felt to me when it happened, the first time that I heard it, it just felt like hip hop. Can I go on a, on a tangent rabbit hole sidebar about this?
Devin Dabney 24:28
Oh, go. Go. Yeah.
Kris Hampton 24:29
So I looked this up: "Drop It Like It's Hot" has been sampled 63 times. Including multiple times by Snoop himself. Last episode, we talked about diss tracks, right? The day we recorded that episode, later in the day, Pusha T put out a diss track going at McDonald's Fillet O' Fish...
Devin Dabney 24:57
Yeah, oh, man.
Kris Hampton 24:59
which sounds like the most ridiculous thing to say. It was paid for by Wendy's. Considering, I don't know if you've heard this either, but Pusha T claims that he wrote the "Ba-da ba ba-bah, I'm lovin' it." jingle.
Devin Dabney 25:16
Really?
Kris Hampton 25:16
Yeah, he claims he wrote that.
Devin Dabney 25:18
I mean... sure? I believe it.
Kris Hampton 25:20
So, so Pusha T going at McDonald's now is kind of extra crazy. But that's not why we're here. We're in this rabbit hole because Snoop remade "Drop It Like It's Hot" into "Pocket Like It's Hot", which was a commercial for Hot Pockets.
Devin Dabney 25:40
Oh my God. Noooo, I don't remember this at all.
Kris Hampton 25:43
I didn't know about it at all until I went down this fucking internet rabbit hole, but I'm gonna link the video of the Hot Pockets commercial in the show notes. "Pocket like it's hottttttt,"...
Devin Dabney 25:54
Hot pockets. You know, um, I mean, honestly, that that statistic about the Snoop song probably isn't all that uncommon. I mean, people who remember Lil Wayne's heyday probably know that he quoted himself more than other people probably did. Like, he sampled his own lyrics. Like, I feel like, I feel like "Da Drought 3" would come out, and then "Da Drought 4" would have a sample from "Da Drought 3" on it, you know.
Kris Hampton 26:22
Oh for sure. Sometimes he would sample a song earlier on the album!
Devin Dabney 26:27
Yeah, yeah. So it just, but that's like, what makes hip hop, so rewarding. It's like a big, and I know I'm gonna lose Kris with this reference, but it's kind of like reading like a big manga, or like one-piece or some shit that's been existing for, like, 20 years, where like, if you've been on this ride the whole time, then every little thing that happens is a treat, you know? Like, everything is cool. But if you're just picking up 'hip hop volume 888' and reading it without any of the context of the previous volumes, you're probably like, "I don't get it." You know, like, and that's kind of what that makes me think of is like, you almost either have to be there, or you have to like go backwards and like, crate dig basically, and learn all of these albums. Because then, yeah, you go back and you're like, shit, like, so when 21 Savage said this, he was actually referencing this event, and this show that happened... you know, it's like insane, dude.
Kris Hampton 27:27
Yeah, I had, coming out of high school I had two roommates in a row who were Star Wars fanatics. And, you know, they got Star Wars magazine delivered to the apartment, and we played Star Wars Trivial Pursuit every fucking night. So, so I got to know the Star Wars canon pretty well. And that's what it reminds me of is that, you know, there, there will be something mentioned in a Star Wars film that isn't in any of the other films, but they will know it because they read all the books that are in the canon, you know?
Devin Dabney 28:06
Yeah. Dude, that's exactly, actually... it's exactly what, how hip hop works. I mean, that's why I say over and over that hip hop fans like, they like to act hard, but they're a bunch of nerds. Like it works exactly the same. Me hearing Key Glock reference Dr. Dre is no different than me watching "Book of Boba Fett" and watching Cad Bane come on the screen and be like, "Oh, that's fucking Cad Bane." Like, it's the exact same, like part of your brain that's triggered, you know?
Kris Hampton 28:34
Totally.
Devin Dabney 28:35
And yeah, that's, that's again, that's part of what makes it so cool, is that it is a big story. And it has, you know, lineage. I would, I would argue to say that like, almost nothing in hip hop is done unintentionally, like everything has some sort of purpose, even when it looks like just some young rappers are having fun, you know?
Kris Hampton 28:56
Yeah, yep. I like that earlier in, you know, this conversation you mentioned that music is about how it makes you feel. And for me, this song, exemplifies that hugely. A: it makes me want to dance, you know? Like now, now I live in the middle of Wyoming. There are no clubs I can go to unless I want to, fucking, you know, country swing or something? But this song makes me want to dance. It like, it pulls up images of Snoop in the "Drop It Like It's Hot" video dancing. Like I'm over here trying to dance in black and white like Snoop was. And I mean, this is the category of song that I don't really, I don't really listen to the lyrics. Like, I'll sing along with it, I'll know the lyrics, but I never really pay attention to what's being said. And I think those songs are necessary. As much of a like, lyrical-head that I am, and, you know, when I'm, when I'm making my own songs, it's all about the lyrics. It's all about the message. I wanna put something forth through my music, you know? But this kind of song is so fucking necessary.
Devin Dabney 30:16
A hundred percent. Yeah, I agree. I mean, you know, talking about it now, I realize, like, that song was teaching me how to not take everything so seriously. If you're friends with me, or you've worked with me, or anything like that, you know that I'm a very, like, creative and driven, ambitious kind of person. And I am so... like, like with music, that's how I was treating music, where I only wanted to, I wanted to have to work for my meal with music. Like I always... I wanted to have to print off the Aesop Rock lyrics, you know? Like, I wanted to have to really think hard about what Lupe meant when he said this and that verse, and it like coincided with something he said, five songs... like, I, that's how I viewed hip hop. And that song just made me feel like I didn't have a care in the world and like, I just wanted to cut loose and have fun with my life, you know? And in that particular point of my life, that was a lesson that I really needed, like, was to learn how to take life seriously, but also not seriously. Like to let it to kind of just like, go with it. And, you know, obviously control what you can but, but maybe you don't need to, you know? Just like, fucking wild out. Like, I'm not, I'm still not super good at doing that. But that was definitely a step I needed to take, in terms of like, just letting, letting myself relax sometimes. And not every lyric I remember needs to be this like, complex like poem. Like sometimes it can just be "Captain Long John Silver, I'm gonna reel 'em in." Which is arguably like the catchiest thing that he says. It's fucking stupid but I love it.
Kris Hampton 32:08
Yeah, there's, there's a lot of that in this song. Question for you, which might lead us down another rabbit hole or tangent. Something we haven't talked about much on this podcast that you do reference in this episode is that we're both rock climbers. You were a route setter, for years. For the the uninitiated who are listening, essentially, what Devin did was create the, the routes, the courses that climbers would perform on. It strikes me that that's quite a bit like what Kenny Beats was doing here.
Devin Dabney 32:57
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 32:58
And when you're going in to set a route for a climber, you choose what the flavor of it is, you know, you choose what the climber is going to get out of it. Were there times when - because I know coming up as a route setter, you're like, "I have to learn the technical parts, I have to understand how to do these things, how to force the climber into these situations." - were there times where it was like, "I'm just gonna make a thing that's going to be fun. It's not necessarily going to be this big lesson but... and I just want to see what these people do over it."?
Devin Dabney 33:40
Yeah, yeah, you know, it all comes together. That, that, gosh, that song was more important to me than I realized because at that time, in my route setting career, I had pretty much hit the limit of like, technical things I could learn about route setting. I'm not saying that I was the master of everything. I'm just saying that at the end of the day, there's only so many configurations of so many holds, and there's only so many movements you can make people do. And I was really struggling to figure out how to take my route setting to the next level. And yeah, that was like, I actually did a route setting clinic probably like a year or two after I heard that song. And the biggest piece of advice that I had gotten from my like, course instructors was, "Devin, like you're a good route setter. You obviously know what you're doing but you just take too long because you're, you're overthinking it! Like just put the holds on the wall and don't worry about it, you know?" And then like a year later, I went to the Setter Showdown which is a route setting competition with Louie Anderson and he basically... it was like the moment in "The Karate Kid" where like that - or like martial arts films - where like the student like, is acknowledged by the master. And once Louie Anderson said, "You're a good route setter," I actually believed it. And I was like, "Oh, I can just like, do what I want now. Like, like, and, and I can just cut loose and have fun with this and not worry about if it's going to be good. I can just, I can just make something. And, and it doesn't have to have a lesson." I don't need to be like, "Oh, this climber is going to learn how to do this, or they're going to have this specific experience." I can just literally make a piece of art, and have people interact with it.
Kris Hampton 35:31
Yeah, hip hop taught us everything. Even just having fun.
Devin Dabney 35:35
Seriously, yeah, 'cause that's really cool. I feel like we're like in my like, therapy session right now. So...
Kris Hampton 35:43
To continue the metaphor here, the best routes in the gym have these like clever little moments. They might just be really fun. They might flow really nicely. But then there's this clever moment that just makes you grin, you know? The best, the best climbs have that. And for me, this song has a couple of those moments that I found myself, after listening to it repeatedly, like waiting for and, and smiling when they happened. And yeah, the first one is like... it's like the eighth time in the song that he says, "okaaayyy," and in that one, he adds this pause where he's like, "o-kaayy," and I'm like, I just love that little pause. Like, it throws me off for just a second and brings me back into the song. Yeah, it makes me smile every time. And then I also love this moment - and, and I love this in hip hop in general, when, like, Eminem is a fucking master at this - where artists follow the drum pattern for a second. I love it. And there's this very quick moment, but he, he highlights it. Like he gets out his like, you know, bright yellow highlighter and runs it over these two words where he says, I'mma go get everything Mother Earth transcends." And every time I hear it, I'm like, yes.
Devin Dabney 37:10
It's so fucking good, yeah.
Kris Hampton 37:12
It's like he understands the technical side of it. He learned how to paint traditionally. And now he can do whatever he wants on the canvas.
Devin Dabney 37:22
Exactly. Yeah, you pointed out a lot of things that I love about just like the way the song flows. And I don't, I don't mean to say that... I'm gonna make a reference that sounds a little crazy, but: it's almost kind of like what you just said, of how Picasso learned how to... a lot of, I don't know if everyone knows this, but, but Picasso was really good at realism. Like, when he was a teenager, he hit probably the, the pinnacle of what you could paint in terms of like, painting something that looked real. And, but that was as a teenager, so this dude's really fucking good. And then that's when he starts to realize oh, like, "I don't have to put the nose there or I don't have to - this shit doesn't have to make literal sense, right? I can just do what I want." And that's where cubism comes from. I think a lot of people don't think, don't realize like Picasso, at any moment, could have dropped the mic on us. Like he could have you know, like... he doesn't, he was doing that because he had the freedom to do it. It's like the Kanye West line where he says like "What you gon' do now? Whatever I wanna do. Gosh, it's cool now." It's like I've already, I've already shown you that I'm good. I don't have to make sure that is traditionally good anymore because I am that fucking good. So that's kind of what I thought of when you were talking about how like Ski Mask obviously knows how to rap, like I'm sure that if you gave him a 90s boom bap beat that he could probably rap a serviceable verse with good metaphors and good rhyme schemes and all that, like traditionally good music, but he's, but he's having fun with it. You know, on that note, I'm curious, do you have any, I know we talked on and on about how the lyrics aren't necessarily like profound, but do you have any lyrics or like sections of the song or bars that are particular favorites or standouts?
Kris Hampton 39:22
I do. I have, and this is like, like there's a lot of it that I love the feel of, like I love the way he's, he's weaving in and out of the beat, but like I mentioned here, like we've talked about, I'm a lyrical head, you know. I like it when lyrics say something to me. And he says, "Please take shelter, spit it like a pronounced letter." That line, the "spit it like a pronounced letter." I fucking love because I can just like, I can imagine these moments of, always white people who, who are like enunciating as clearly as possible, you know? And are fucking spitting at me when they're talking and I'm like, it drives me insane a little bit.
Devin Dabney 40:16
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Kris Hampton 40:18
There was, there was definitely a moment, a period in my like hip hop education... 80s, sometime in the 80s, when, when I was realizing that the way the rappers I really loved talked was different than the way that the people in my neighborhood talked, you know? And I was trying to mold my, my blending of words and syllables a little more like the rappers that I loved. And I took it way too far, you know. There was definitely, you know, late 80s, early 90s, when I had tried to have a high-top fade, that I took it way, way too far.
Devin Dabney 41:08
Oh my god, oh my god.
Kris Hampton 41:13
There are no photos of that, I hope.
Devin Dabney 41:19
Oh shit, that's hilarious. You know, it is funny. Like I think in "The Boondocks" they say like "When white people talk they say the whole word."
Kris Hampton 41:31
Yeah, I love that visual. What's your favorite bars here?
Devin Dabney 41:35
I kind of gave it away but, I really, I think my favorite part of the song is the "Captain Long John Silver, I'm gonna reel 'em in. Got on goat fur cream color coat from Burberry's den." Because not, not just because of the Long John Silver - that's just funny - but the "Got on goat fur cream color coat from Burberry's den." That just is like a beautiful like cellar door lyric. Like, it flows. It sounds like it should be hard to say, but once your mouth starts moving, it just fucking rolls off the tongue. And so yeah, like I think that's something that he does really well, that isn't... I don't, I don't know, it should be appreciated more, just like he says things that flow well. And then also switching up his flow. Like there's a part where he's like, "She gotta go through him just to get through me. Yes, I'm the middle man."
Kris Hampton 42:24
Yeah. I love that part!
Devin Dabney 42:25
Yeah, I just love that, it's, it's good, dude. I mean, there's, I don't know, there's so much. I'll just say it over and over again but, a song that seems so irreverent and like pointless is actually like really complicated, you know? There's a lot to be unpacked from it. But yeah, I think my favorite thing about him, in terms of a lyricist, is the flow of some of the stuff he says and the character that he puts on it, you know? I don't think anybody else could say "Captain Long John Silver, I'm gonna reel 'em in." and have me think that it sounds good. Like Jay-Z...
Kris Hampton 43:01
No.
Devin Dabney 43:02
Couldn't be like, "Captain Long John Silver," you know? Like he couldn't like, no way Jay-Z could say that and have it make... I'd be like, "What the fuck is Jay-Z talking about right now?" You know, that's a great actually, actually, it's a great exercise for some hip hop fans: try to find, find like lines that you like, by other rappers and try to like, imagine how another rapper would say it. And that alone will tell you how important delivery is, you know?
Kris Hampton 43:31
Yeah. Uhhh, I fucking love it.
Devin Dabney 43:35
I'm gonna be thinking of Jay-Z trying to rap Ski... it wouldn't work, dude. It would not work. Jay Z would've, he wouldn't have made it to "Reasonable Doubt".
Kris Hampton 43:46
You know, I, I agree. That like, that's the like beauty of this thing is just the, the whole, the simplicity of it is, is really fucking complicated. Yeah, it's, it's very hard to make a song that just feels good. You know, it's, it's much easier frankly, as certainly for me, it's what I'm steeped in, to write complicated lyrics. To just do something that feels good is so underrated.
Devin Dabney 44:24
Yeah, I mean, and even to call back to, we were talking about climbing the other day, or not the other day, but during this conversation, but uh, making a climb for people that is simply fun, is hard, is hard to do. Because it's not, you can't quantify fun, you know? Like, you can't, you can't say this song feels 88 units good, you know? Like, there's no way. So it's a lot easier to rely on technicality. And like I know this is good because I have eight rhyme schemes, and like I have 10 references like that's, that's not making music, you know? And that's something that I needed to learn is like, you know, making good music isn't just about being good at making music. You can be super good at music theory or routesetting, whatever it is, but still not be, like, resonating with people because you're not putting yourself into it. You're just putting a bunch of skill, throwing skill at it until it sticks, basically.
Kris Hampton 45:27
Yep, absolutely.
Devin Dabney 45:28
Yeah, a huge lesson that I learned from this song.
Kris Hampton 45:31
Alright, you wanna you want to take us out of here?
Devin Dabney 45:34
I guess so. I could talk about this all day. Okay, if you are watching this on YouTube, or listening to it anywhere but Spotify, then you are missing half of the podcast. Every other week, we release short, focused essays set to beats, followed by the full song that we're learning the lesson from. These are only available on Spotify Music + Talk so...
Kris Hampton 45:58
And they're, they're, they're so fun to listen to. I just want to throw that in there, like you and I never hear the finished episode until it's done, because we aren't putting the full song after it when we're making it. It's so much fucking fun to hear, you know, "Foot Fungus" right after this episode.
Devin Dabney 46:20
Such a, that's a good point. And thanks for, thanks for calling that out because I think that's something that we that, we need to, that is really cool about what we're doing with this podcast is that it's like wine tasting, you know? Like you're, you're hearing about the song, like in detail and all these emotions associated with it, and then the song plays immediately after. It completely changes how I listen to the songs, and I'm making the podcast! Like so, to listen to Kris talk about J. Cole's song, and then immediately hear the song, like, it just opens up this whole world of perception. So definitely, thank you for saying that on, on wax, because it's important. You know, and additionally, just with this episode, we've got all the links and videos and, and bonus material for the blog post, it will be at hiphoptaughtmeeverything.com. I'm pretty sure we'll link some things in the show notes of all the different videos and stuff we referenced.
Kris Hampton 47:22
"Pocket Like It's Hot."
Devin Dabney 47:23
Yeah. And honestly, if you're a young, or not even young, but just like an aspiring producer, or just a producer - period - I would highly recommend watching that Kenny Beats video because it's definitely, maybe the favorite 'how it's made' for music that I've ever watched. Just because he actually goes into the story of it and explains, like he's showing you his Pro Tools file, you know? Okay, and you can also find us on Instagram and Twitter. And we will see you next time when a froggy-voiced underground legend with the most expansive vocabulary in hip hop of all time, teaches Kris how to age gracefully.
Kris Hampton 48:04
I'm doing my best, y'all.
Devin Dabney 48:06
I think you're doing great, man.